Curse

hyro yamaguchi · Jul 14, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Now you'll probably be thinking that this is yet another thread with whining and stupid tips of fixing HA. And certainly I hold no pretentions of my thread being so much different from all of those other threads. Nonetheless it seems clear that 'precious' HA needs fixing, if only because in 2 months it'll be that Anet needs to think up of a new way to give favor, as there will be too few HA players to compete for it. In fact this fixing would have to be more permanent, as the same problems rearise every expansion.

I have given this some thought, and if you ask me it is a vicious circle:
less new players join, so less unranked groups get formed, so less unranked people play etc. the same goes for ranked people.

Now we could start making all these stupid suggestions, but it'd be more wise to simply look at other mmorpg's and see how they have fixed this problem.

I hate to admit this...but I have played conquer online briefly. However I don't want to discuss the quality, or lack of it, from this game. No, I would like to discuss the pleveling system.

In this game, if high leveled players takes low leveled players into their group they get points, which they need to get exclusive items or get to certain high level areas. This works just fine to help out new players getting started.
Ofcourse in Guildwars leveling is not the problem. It is getting to a certain acceptable rank to join groups.

Change one

Naturally following from this, if Anet would introduce a certain system, where you get points for letting low ranked players into your team, and perhaps get more faction.

These points would count towards a title, or even give the players equipment/an emote/gold/access to certain areas, however attractive you would like to make it.
This would probably draw the better players to HA again, if the reward is high enough.

An example of such a system I thought up of is:

A player gets points for his rank minus his team members ranks, times the consecutive wins.

For example:

A team consisting of
2 r1
1 r3
2 r4
1 r5
1 r6
1 r7

The r6 guy would get:
0 points from the r7 guy
6-5=1 point for the r5 guy
6-4=2 points from each r4 party member so thats 4 points
3 from the r3
and 2*4=8 from the r1s
= a total of 16 points per consecutive win.

If he gets 3 consecs he gets:
16+32+48=96 points

Ofcourse, if you calculate this for extreme cases, such as an r15 guy winning 40 times with only r0's in his team you get extremely high numbers, but than again such a thing would probably not happen in the real game.

Change two

"..such a thing would probably not happen in the real game."

But they have already happened spirit/para holding builds,monk bonding.
Yeah they became obsolete when killcount was introduced, but will you please raise your hands if you think that killcount was a good idea...

Well actually it wasn't that bad...it's just that for some reason they implanted it in 1v1v1 maps => the two worst team gank the team they consider the biggest treath.
And offcourse killcount also makes people run super offensive, cookie cutter builds.

What we want is more variety, right?

And for variety in builds you need variety in maps, if you focus on a single aspect, like damage doing, or altar holding, you get builds that abuse this feature.
So put back altar holding, keep killcount, in 1v1 maps, keep relic running, hell you could even invent a new game type.
In fact to stop hall skipping, you could make altar holding, killcount, altar holding etc. Or something completely different...

And to start of well, a double fame weekend.

masta_yoda · Jul 14, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

not to bash on your ideas or anything

reward isnt going to bring old school players back.....people will come and play if it is fun and exiciting like tombs use to be.

i do support part of your argument or points in change number two, new varierty may attract some players who may actually stay if its enjoyable.

Your idea of double fame is a big flaw... as you can see anet made the return of 8v8 a double fame weekend. As a result the district were populated for only a few days while it was active and dramtically dropped back to the usual 2-3 ever since the change to 6v6.

overall nice ideas but anet is not going to do anything about it as it is the least of their concerns

hyro yamaguchi · Jul 14, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Title hunting is already rbinging many players to areas they wouldn't go normally.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 14, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Or they could just balance the skills, change bad game mechanics, and find a way to draw back old-school gamers who are actually good at the game.

masta_yoda · Jul 14, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

Title hunting is already rbinging many players to areas they wouldn't go normally.

maybe but another title will make the already decent ranked players QQ as they have to start again (not saying rank means anything)

Tea Girl · Jul 14, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

i refuse to babysit random ppl

and i was thinking pen is when i saw the title ='(

Tab · Jul 14, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Girl

i refuse to babysit random ppl

and i was thinking pen is when i saw the title ='(

Same, it's a bit of a let down tbh.

Lykan · Jul 14, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

lol you said pennis ;P

Anyway...

Why would they totally change the points system so late in the games life?
Wont work as most high rankers quit anyway and they would just farm on their own low rank accounts if they did play.

This thread also became a joke the minute you mentioned double fame.

Killed u man · Jul 14, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Lol, funny how u spend hours of your life to make this post, when it all can be said in 2 lines.

To fix HA, Anet just needs to revert it to the beginning, old-scool holding, nerf heroes, ritspikes and JUST BE ACTIVE ON SKILL BALANCE. (The last one is what totally ruins HA)

=> The brackets don't count as a line

hyro yamaguchi · Jul 14, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Girl

i refuse to babysit random ppl

and i was thinking pen is when i saw the title ='(

You wouldn't have to do that

it's your choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

lol you said pennis ;P

Anyway...

Why would they totally change the points system so late in the games life?
Wont work as most high rankers quit anyway and they would just farm on their own low rank accounts if they did play.

This thread also became a joke the minute you mentioned double fame.

Why? To stimulate it, and there fore make it more fun. Oh god please let's not change anything, it's always been like this is the attitude that kept us in medieval times to long.

Anyway, I just mentioned double fame as a way to introduce the new system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Lol, funny how u spend hours of your life to make this post, when it all can be said in 2 lines.

To fix HA, Anet just needs to revert it to the beginning, old-scool holding, nerf heroes, ritspikes and JUST BE ACTIVE ON SKILL BALANCE. (The last one is what totally ruins HA)

=> The brackets don't count as a line

Yeh, but they don't, and they don't want to. Plus skill balancing is not a permanent solution, when GWEN comes out, they'll have to start all over again, and for the expansion after that againe tc. etc.

Seriously, HA will become popular if the reward is high enough.

Turbobusa · Jul 14, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

so its even easier for higher ranked people. not fair = not signed

Kyp Jade · Jul 14, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

You seem to believe that low ranked players being unable to work thier way up the rank ladder is the problem in HA. For the sake of this thread I'll ignore bad mechanics like cap points or broken builds like rt spike, or broken AI like olias (wtf, he can keep death nova on 10 minions without breaking asweat!)

I find nothing wrong with high ranked pugs not wanting to take low ranked pugs. They want to play, they want to win, they want to farm the HoH chest. Thier best chances lie in taking ppl that have the best chance on not failing at life.

Now I'll tell you the secret of HA. (wait for it... wait for it..) PUGs fail. Play with friends. My groups tend to be friends only, or friends of friends. And if someone I dont know fails at thier job, they get a "sorry that role is too much for u" /boot. The only way to reliable make fame (if thats your goal) is to play with mostly the same people all the time.

Im going to say it straight up, putting a noob in a good team is not the fast way to make him good. You cannot just skip the entire learning to play part, and give a noob a role in a team and expect him/her to perform. Theres more to just the 8 skills on your bar when you play in a balanced team.

Despozblehero · Jul 14, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

im all for a change to HA, i just happen to disagree with you on your changes. the HA game itself should be rewarding enough to attract new players, not rely on old players to do that... it should also promote and encourage long time players... it fails atm

Deathly_Overlord · Jul 14, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

- im horribly disapointed in this thread! No penis

Its Pennies i think

1: Not sure how much relevence this holds :S - Rank is there for a reason and it works. High rank people go into teams with high rank people, and everyone is happy, vice versa for low rank people. Nothing wrong :P

2: I partially agree with this, more maps are needed to create diversity in builds. It gets boring going up against spikers over and over again... Come EotN i imagine there will be a lot of new builds

, so not long until even more spike teams are invented

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jul 14, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Or they could just balance the skills, change bad game mechanics, and find a way to draw back old-school gamers who are actually good at the game.

^this man wins the thread

Extra points for low ranked players just isn't going to work. It would be imbalanced as hell as exp PvPers would just create new accounts. Besides, lowranked people need to stop bitching. Everyone started at r0, if you're a decent player, you will go up and make high ranked friends fast. If you suck, then you won't find any good groups or make any good friends, that is your problem.

shoogi · Jul 14, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

so u think that rank discrimination is the problem of tombs? rank discrimination was here all the time. and there were times that tombs was actually fun to play. and it wasnt because high ranked ppl adopted new players as a charity.
the problem, as i said in about every "whining and stupid tips" thread, is that anet simply dont care about the ha community. ha became a garbage can mainly because skill balances stopped. first months of game- skill balance every 2-3 weeks. now- skill balance every 3-4 months. who cares that there are ridiculously overpowered ritualist channeling skills? who cares that 80% groups are heroways? who cares that we see the same builds for 2 years?

its a sad fact, but anet realized that the treasure lies in pve. pve sells better. so, gw, that started as a unique pvp game ended up as another pve mmorpg. therefore, anet allow themselves to not give a damn about tombs.

sry to tell u Hyro, but u really missed the point. rank discrimination is definitely not the problem. and to all of u who think that removing killcount will make everything jolly good again- i highly doubt that.

God Apprentice · Jul 14, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

When I was unranked I made my own groups, and didn't cry cause higher ranked people wouldn't take me. Why can't people make groups?

LifesRestorer · Jul 14, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

putting a noob in a good team is not the fast way to make him good. You cannot just skip the entire learning to play part, and give a noob a role in a team and expect him/her to perform.

QFT

if an unranked guy goes into a group of say... r9+, although he will get more fame than he normally does, he doesnt learn anything because he is carried by the higher ranked players because he is unable to figure things out for himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

When I was unranked I made my own groups, and didn't cry cause higher ranked people wouldn't take me. Why can't people make groups?

cuz i am lazy, pliz take meh into your uber group so i can learn, cause i learn faster when i get more fame!

masta_yoda · Jul 14, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

ok hyro pretend they did implement change 1 it will do little good. The high rank pugs still wouldnt want to take the low ranked because its just how it is even if they are rewarded for it.
But the high rank pugs on the other hand would just make new smurfs and play with 1 or 2 high ranks in the group they know. The suggestion further increases the gap between the so called "rank discrimination"

btw as some have stated it is not "rank discrimination" that killed ha, it was heroes, 6v6, bad mechanics.

not to offend any people or anything, but from how i see it the new lower ranked community of ha arent as eager to learn as the low ranked a year ago. obvious from heroway, decline of population for ha.

Lykan · Jul 15, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

Why? To stimulate it, and there fore make it more fun. Oh god please let's not change anything, it's always been like this is the attitude that kept us in medieval times to long.

Nope because the game is almost dead, they don't care about it anymore.

People aren't buying GW to play HA, they are buying it to PVE so Anet are putting all their programming efforts and money into making a last bit of money out of PVE before they give up on it.

HA = waste of their time, imo.